Ooh that stage does look... different.

alittledizzy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm Ooh that stage does look... different.

alittledizzy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm Ooh that stage does look... different.

I assume it was too difficult to get the set to Russia (and back to Berlin) in that time frame?
I am not sure about the actual driving distance between Amsterdam and Moscow, but this seems likely to me.

LtrllySusan wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:46 pm

alittledizzy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm Ooh that stage does look... different.

I assume it was too difficult to get the set to Russia (and back to Berlin) in that time frame?
I am not sure about the actual driving distance between Amsterdam and Moscow, but this seems likely to me.

From a practical point of view it would have made sense for them to end the European leg in Russia, but I guess they just had to make do with whichever dates and venues they could get.

This made me worry about them possibly not bringing the set to Helsinki either (because Finland if more or less in the middle of nowhere geographically), but after taking a look at my map app, it should be doable because the shows aren't on consecutive days. It takes 12 hours to drive from Warsaw to Tallinn, and I know from experience that a ferry trip from Tallinn to Helsinki takes 2-3 hours.

Y'know, this is the kind of situation that I just wish D&P would think through a bit more

dancy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:35 pm Y'know, this is the kind of situation that I just wish D&P would think through a bit more

Like I know you want to please everyone boys but I think if you going to say no to someone this would be the time to do it

dancy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:35 pm Y'know, this is the kind of situation that I just wish D&P would think through a bit more

…yikes

You really would think they’d see the repercussions immediately but here we are

May I ask what the flag means please? Apologies for not knowing in advance.

human wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:52 pm May I ask what the flag means please? Apologies for not knowing in advance.

It's the Soviet flag and a representation of the communist movement.

I’m.... I’m perplexed.

I can’t believe they’re posing with the flag of the USSR

Ever heard of communism?! Did they lose their fucking minds?!

Anyone who doesn’t understand why this is wrong needs to open an elementary school history book. I can’t believe Dan and Phil are this moronic. I’m VERY disappointed

Oof, I’m really shocked they haven’t set boundaries... Dan is making a funny face with the flag maybe to joke it off? But with all the tiptoeing around Russia I’m in a bit of disbelief.

(also the comments on twitter like, “wow i hope they know what that flag is” they’re grown ass educated men, of course they know what just happened)

hello9217 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:55 pm

human wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:52 pm May I ask what the flag means please? Apologies for not knowing in advance.

It's the Soviet flag and a representation of the communist movement.

Communist movement aka a dictatorship that ruined millions of lives

Isn't this literally why they have a manager there? So she can take the role of the mean party pooper who says no to communist flags and other seriously stupid requests.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't know exactly what flag she had (I went to college but I didn't immediately associate that flag with communism- I had look at it and think about it) BUT I do hope they set some guidelines before they go anywhere else. Management really should have stepped in on this one because it's political and hopefully they'll say something about what's allowed and not allowed at M & G's in the future.

I'm super confused how that even happened. Like....they're both very educated, grew up in Europe, Dan's into politics, surely they are aware of that flag? They have to be.

Why did Marianne not say no? Why did they not say no?

I don't even know what to say.

I'm just sort of speechless? Surely they know that communism isn't just another dumb meme. Ugh

Even if you are educated about your country it doesn't mean you are educated about the world and I don't think Deps are as "educated" as they like to portray about world events. That doesn't give them an excuse for ignorance and if they were planning on travelling to different countries they really should have taken the time to read and learn about them.

eta i don't mean that they didn't know what communism was but I'm talking about recognizing flags.

Amiaw wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:18 pm I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't know exactly what flag she had (I went to college but I didn't immediately associate that flag with communism- I had look at it and think about it) BUT I do hope they set some guidelines before they go anywhere else. Management really should have stepped in on this one because it's political and hopefully they'll say something about what's allowed and not allowed at M & G's in the future.

The person who posted it also posted it on Facebook and they were talking with their friends and said that they thought dan and phil had no idea what was going on. I think they were trying to be a bit controversial because one of their friends commented saying the point of bringing it was because they wanted them to be confused.

hello9217 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 pm

Amiaw wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:18 pm I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't know exactly what flag she had (I went to college but I didn't immediately associate that flag with communism- I had look at it and think about it) BUT I do hope they set some guidelines before they go anywhere else. Management really should have stepped in on this one because it's political and hopefully they'll say something about what's allowed and not allowed at M & G's in the future.

The person who posted it also posted it on Facebook and they were talking with their friends and said that they thought dan and phil had no idea what was going on. I think they were trying to be a bit controversial because one of their friends commented saying the point of bringing it was because they wanted them to be confused.

Hey, let's bring the Nazi Germany flag to the M&G and see how they react! I bet it will be fun!
Some people...

LtrllySusan wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:43 pm

hello9217 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 pm

Amiaw wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:18 pm I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn't know exactly what flag she had (I went to college but I didn't immediately associate that flag with communism- I had look at it and think about it) BUT I do hope they set some guidelines before they go anywhere else. Management really should have stepped in on this one because it's political and hopefully they'll say something about what's allowed and not allowed at M & G's in the future.

The person who posted it also posted it on Facebook and they were talking with their friends and said that they thought dan and phil had no idea what was going on. I think they were trying to be a bit controversial because one of their friends commented saying the point of bringing it was because they wanted them to be confused.

Hey, let's bring the Nazi Germany flag to the M&G and see how they react! I bet it will be fun!
Some people...

Exactly my thoughts. I s2g, if I see swastikas and rebel flags popping up at ii. The fuck.

$5 says Dan thought it would be funny and ironic. $50,000 says he has changed his mind.

The Soviet Union is not some obscure detail in the history of behind God’s back from long ago. My parents lived in the communist dictatorship. They teach this shit at school. Nobody would pose with a nazi flag. How uneducated do you have to be not to feel posing with the USSR flag is wrong. Especially as a fellow European... Like. This is some next level ignorant shit. And what was their management thinking? Wasn’t there at least one person with a brain? I just don’t understand.

dancy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:35 pm Y'know, this is the kind of situation that I just wish D&P would think through a bit more

I don't think it's wise for fans to blow this situation out of proportion. First off, of course DnP are aware of the USSR and its history (they didn't grow up under a rock). But I'm sure their goal for today's meet and greet was the same as at every other one they've done so far, to make the few moments they get to spend with each fan as special as possible. This little girl brought something special to her (or at least special to her parents who were most likely standing there taking the picture) and they wanted to make her day.

I would also suspect that they'd be hesitant to object to anything on political grounds given where they were at the time. They've obviously been taking extra precautions while they're in Russia (The old phones we know about, but they've probably taken other precautions that we don't know about). I'm sure someone at the British consulate gave them an earful on everything they should and should not do while they're over there. Marianne probably got an earful too.

As someone who loves to travel, but also is very cautious by nature, I would have done exactly the same thing if I'd been in their shoes. Actually, DnP are braver than I am because I wouldn't travel to Russia in the first place right now as I try to avoid places our State Department deems unsafe (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... l?action=0). So, yeah, there's not a doubt in my mind that DnP did the best they could. The little girl and her family left the meet and greet having had a good experience, and DnP got to go on with their show.

Amiaw wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:23 pm Even if you are educated about your country it doesn't mean you are educated about the world and I don't think Deps are as "educated" as they like to portray about world events. That doesn't give them an excuse for ignorance and if they were planning on travelling to different countries they really should have taken the time to read and learn about them.

eta i don't mean that they didn't know what communism was but I'm talking about recognizing flags.

This is what I kinda think. Someone might have read my post and thought I'm a complete nunce who's clueless or whatever, but I assure you I'm not a numpty with no brain or common sense and I'm smart. There's no excuse for being ignorant agreed, but if someone is ignorant or is acting with conceived ignorance, surely it's always better to educate them calmly or give them the benefit of the doubt first. If the response to that education of the fact was "yeah we knew what the flag means, we're fine with it" then that's a big problem not to be dealt with quite as calmly.

I am more shocked that someone who knew what it means had the flag and wanted Deppy to hold it for a picture though. That's... very strange. I can't even imagine why she thought that was a kind or wise thing to do.

so_cheesy wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:49 pm The Soviet Union is not some obscure detail in the history of behind God’s back from long ago. My parents lived in the communist dictatorship. They teach this shit at school. Nobody would pose with a nazi flag. How uneducated do you have to be not to feel posing with the USSR flag is wrong. Especially as a fellow European... Like. This is some next level ignorant shit. And what was their management thinking? Wasn’t there at least one person with a brain? I just don’t understand.

Well I'm European, have been taught about the Soviet Union, but did not recognize the flag. It can happen.

Though I will admit if they didn't recognize the flag they probably shouldn't have posed with it.

Idk personally, as someone who *gasps* doesn't think the ideology of communism is bad, I don't think this is a clear-cut issue.

It's definitely more nuanced than posing with a swastika for instance. I won't get into it cause it's 4am here and I'm a disaster but yeah.