obsessivelymoody wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:29 pm

SquishPhan wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:59 pm

I'm loving the pics and stories we've been getting, and this one is great.

SquishPhan wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:59 pm

I'm loving the pics and stories we've been getting, and this one is great.

.... sorry not sorry

sugar wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:50 pm i’ve been getting insta story notifs really late today...strange

anyway, can anyone tell what the hell dan says before ‘kneel into it or something’?? i’ve listened to it like 40 times and i just can’t tell.

Elemancy wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:32 pm This was such a wall of text on mobile I had to put it under a spoiler. But in reference to the current try guys vidcon sketch discussion:

Stakhanov, I keep getting the impression that even with your call for fair, equanimous discussion, your inability to listen to or pause to consider the perspectives which have been presented here and the reasoning behind them without quickly dismissing them as too sensitive or just as pejorative as the content up for discussion, suggests in turn a lack of perspective on your part. Though it's difficult to make people understand experiences or points of views they have never and are never likely to experience that doesn't invalidate their opinions or make them more touchy or unreasonable when they present an argument like this for why certain subjects have darker, more negative undertones than what you're able to perceive at a glance. Perhaps even what the Try Guys themselves are able to perceive and that's the point- to open a dialogue where we can specify and discuss the more troubling aspects of a piece of content we experienced and the after effects of its impact.

There has been no call here to censor, revile or boycott the Try Guys. The prevailing sentiment I've continually picked up on is instead one of weary incredulity as to why, every time there's a sketch about fandom or Dan and Phil the core issue and easy target time and again becomes the young demographic of teenage girls and mlm where both are negatively parodied to excess. more specifically, many of the comments question why bits like this continually cater to a prevailing standard of negative opinion without trying to understand the nuances of how and why that opinion could be potentially harmful in the way it affects a targeted group and continues to spotlight said group in a manner that only ostracizes them further. (The difference between being in on a joke and being the target of it; playful banter vs. abject malice, however abstractly its portrayed.) Using tomska's videos and humor as a small general example for reference, though I'm not familiar with the full extent of his work, what I've seen from the way Tom plans and produces sketches, he regularly features subjects in an ironic, satirical light that can easily totter on the edge of offensive in some cases, but is most often tempered by his own introspection, reconsideration and expression of empathy in trying to listen to comments that point out different p.o.v's as to why something perpetuates a negative and harmful stereotype and the adverse effects it could have as a result of his participation, albeit unknowingly. These discussions and his own choice to edit for tone doesn't change the content he creates as these aren't calls for blanket censorship, instead it allows him to bring a new perspective to how he approaches ideas, from a different more mindful angle, without choking his preferred method of creative expression, but also without demeaning the identity and voices of those that might have otherwise been cast in a harmful light. The sort which plays on and feeds into long established stereotypes with a historical record of abuse targeting the groups/individuals involved.
(I hope this made sense, I like Tom's work and how he expresses himself, especially in vlogs where he breaks down his thought processes or addresses certain subjects with an effort to understand himself and his environment, but of course that's a personal opinion.)

Again, in this instance particularly, its the difference between pointing out the self aware humor of fandoms' tendencies to feverishly analyze and deconstruct or the mob mentality of 'stan' culture, (and the ways those habits can in turn be as detrimental as they are absurd) and then there's throwing an entire group under the bus by dismissing and diminishing them as a whole. Their identity becomes something which encourages others to fall in line to mock and devalue. That's the underlying point of concern here. Not what the Try Guys did, but how they did it- recycling a low effort joke for easy laughs to the detriment of the young audience and to Dan and Phil themselves as it also devalues their efforts as YouTubers who have done more and signify more than just the throwaway lazy perspective touting the idea of 'those two guys who are only famous because they're shipped by their fans.' When of course there's always been more to it and them than that. It's why the Shane conspiracy video rankled me so much as well, casting them as machiavellian villians playing up a part for views and money, as if they were also in turn playing on the identity of an entire community for their own gain. I think Shane should have known better and the Try Guys should Try Better to update their approach to comedy, but when the punchline is a well established albeit played out joke guaranteed to get attention and laughs I suppose that might be too much to ask.

In a call for allowing the expression of differing perspectives to prevent the crush of a fanatical hivemind complex, then I see no reason why this conversation shouldn't have a place here as it merely implies a request for people to question their motives and the consequences of certain actions as it applies to or affects others. it's a call for a compassionate exchange of ideas and creativity by pointing out the ways certain jokes and comments fall short. Not coddling, not 'torch and pitchforking' creators to silence their voices or for those with differing opinions to silence theirs, but to inform each other of ways we could reconsider a point of view and approach it from a new angle instead, especially where creators with a large scale platform of visibility is concerned, where all the world really is a stage and with all the world watching maybe it might be more wise to approach such diverse audiences with a bit more tact, social awareness and understanding.

(Reading back the opening sentence it sounds like an attack, but I'm not trying to frame it that way. I just believe this is a subject with a lot to unpack, more than just a matter of 'pearl clutching hysterics' over something trivial; with much more nuanced and involved depth behind it, deserving of equal space in conversation)

Katka wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:49 pm Opinions on the Try Guys mess, late as always:

I don’t necessarily believe Dan and Phil are together and I still think the Try Guys video was in bad taste (just like when they pulled the same thing last year). Just saying this because of the hot takes two pages back. You don’t have to believe two people are together to disagree with making fun of their relationship and their “crazy fangirls”. It’s just rude, whether they’re together or not, it’s overstepping boundaries that D&P have set. I actually think the video is even tackier because their official relationship status is still out in the open and there is all this backstory. They’re not just some popular ship, people have valid reasons to believe they’re together and that “look at those crazy fans making stuff up, haha” thing is getting old.

I don't really know why I'm writing this but I guess I wanted to say that not necessarily thinking they're a couple doesn't make these "jokes" less tacky, especially considering that D&P are not straight and are therefore affected by the homophobic nature of the jokes this way or that. (And yes, making "It's gay!" the punchline of a joke is homophobic, it's 2018, this is not even a discussion anymore, it's just a fact.)

hello9217 wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:34 pm I think the thing that really killed me in that video was dan's soft voice guiding phil into having the right pose. And then phil is just being a complete awkward dork. Here's my heart you fools.

sparkle wrote: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:13 pmIf I ever think I'm a lesbian can someone please just send me a photo of Phil. Heck can someone just send me photos of Phil daily. You'll be my best friend.